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	<title>Comments on: On political idolatry</title>
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	<link>http://www.theopolitical.com/?p=1225</link>
	<description>Theopolitical is the weblog of Davey Henreckson, a graduate student in theology at the University of Notre Dame. Topics of conversation are political and historical theology, with semi-frequent forays into literature, economics, localism, and the divine American sport -- baseball.</description>
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		<title>By: Matt Cullen-Meyer</title>
		<link>http://www.theopolitical.com/?p=1225&#038;cpage=1#comment-2014</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Cullen-Meyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 14:53:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ah, the icon transmutates to the idol - and back</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, the icon transmutates to the idol &#8211; and back</p>
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		<title>By: Davey Henreckson</title>
		<link>http://www.theopolitical.com/?p=1225&#038;cpage=1#comment-1985</link>
		<dc:creator>Davey Henreckson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 17:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theopolitical.com/?p=1225#comment-1985</guid>
		<description>Great question. I think that mimesis itself isn&#039;t enough to earn the idolatrous label, since -- fundamentally -- every Christian act is a parody of our ultimate love for Christ and His body. Marital loyalty is not idolatrous by nature, but may be if corrupted. The same goes, I think, for love of specific (and exclusionary) places and people. 

Certain acts, I admit, are fundamentally idolatrous. But at the same time, I&#039;d like to maintain a hard distinction between the created thing and the actions that abuse that created thing. The flag has a proper place and an improper place. 

That said, I&#039;m sure that somewhere in the God-haunted South, some deeply confused Christian brother is trying to patent his brand of red, white, and blue communion wafers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great question. I think that mimesis itself isn&#8217;t enough to earn the idolatrous label, since &#8212; fundamentally &#8212; every Christian act is a parody of our ultimate love for Christ and His body. Marital loyalty is not idolatrous by nature, but may be if corrupted. The same goes, I think, for love of specific (and exclusionary) places and people. </p>
<p>Certain acts, I admit, are fundamentally idolatrous. But at the same time, I&#8217;d like to maintain a hard distinction between the created thing and the actions that abuse that created thing. The flag has a proper place and an improper place. </p>
<p>That said, I&#8217;m sure that somewhere in the God-haunted South, some deeply confused Christian brother is trying to patent his brand of red, white, and blue communion wafers.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://www.theopolitical.com/?p=1225&#038;cpage=1#comment-1980</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 07:44:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theopolitical.com/?p=1225#comment-1980</guid>
		<description>Although Davey, what exactly do you mean by &quot;mass displays of civic loyalty&quot;? Where do you draw the line being paying taxes and ceremonially eating an American flag as a eucharist?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although Davey, what exactly do you mean by &#8220;mass displays of civic loyalty&#8221;? Where do you draw the line being paying taxes and ceremonially eating an American flag as a eucharist?</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://www.theopolitical.com/?p=1225&#038;cpage=1#comment-1979</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 07:42:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Without being too partisan, I&#039;d like to add that even worse than casual accusations of &quot;idolatry&quot; are rampant accusations of &quot;heresy&quot; within most American churches, especially ones that are &quot;historical.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Without being too partisan, I&#8217;d like to add that even worse than casual accusations of &#8220;idolatry&#8221; are rampant accusations of &#8220;heresy&#8221; within most American churches, especially ones that are &#8220;historical.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Pensans</title>
		<link>http://www.theopolitical.com/?p=1225&#038;cpage=1#comment-1977</link>
		<dc:creator>Pensans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 02:47:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>My point was that your judgment against the use of idolatry in the present context requires a prior judgment that the situation is not critical.

You cannot justify the criticism of condemning idolatry without supporting the prior implied judgment that things are basically normal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My point was that your judgment against the use of idolatry in the present context requires a prior judgment that the situation is not critical.</p>
<p>You cannot justify the criticism of condemning idolatry without supporting the prior implied judgment that things are basically normal.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave H</title>
		<link>http://www.theopolitical.com/?p=1225&#038;cpage=1#comment-1970</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:38:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Perhaps many of the “Reformed” idol labelers have simply learned from them who claim to be anti-Capitalists. A simple Google search of capitalism and idolatry demonstrates this. Idol accusations are highly charged, and based on quite relative assumptions. Kind of like asserting “treason” – a charge invented by winners as an excuse for hanging the losers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps many of the “Reformed” idol labelers have simply learned from them who claim to be anti-Capitalists. A simple Google search of capitalism and idolatry demonstrates this. Idol accusations are highly charged, and based on quite relative assumptions. Kind of like asserting “treason” – a charge invented by winners as an excuse for hanging the losers.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Cullen-Meyer</title>
		<link>http://www.theopolitical.com/?p=1225&#038;cpage=1#comment-1966</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Cullen-Meyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 22:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theopolitical.com/?p=1225#comment-1966</guid>
		<description>Orthodoxy and Heresiology are ambivalent boundaries after all. I am similarly frustrated by oversimplified accounts of idols and idolatry because it implicitly assumes the world is divided up neatly. Rather, it is much more complex and gray. How often are problems internal to the people called to save the world? 

As an alternative to polemic rhetoric I have increasingly became interested in the dialogue taking place between &quot;new traditionalism&quot;/&quot;racial ecclesiology&quot; and &quot;radical democracy&quot;. What I find most prolific from their engagement is that both sides have a point. Liberalism/secularism has a good deal of ills. But so does Christianity (even when theopolitically minded). Their take-away advice seems to be that democratic/ecumenical conversation should at least be more charitable and receptive - from all parties involved. The advantage of both ecclesial and democratic socities is that thoughts, opinions, perspectives, etc. can be exchanged and can be argued for persuasively in front of a non-violent listening audience. I think that whenever &quot;idolatry&quot; is invoked it makes boggy-men out of people/groups and the dialectic process is blocked from taking place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Orthodoxy and Heresiology are ambivalent boundaries after all. I am similarly frustrated by oversimplified accounts of idols and idolatry because it implicitly assumes the world is divided up neatly. Rather, it is much more complex and gray. How often are problems internal to the people called to save the world? </p>
<p>As an alternative to polemic rhetoric I have increasingly became interested in the dialogue taking place between &#8220;new traditionalism&#8221;/&#8221;racial ecclesiology&#8221; and &#8220;radical democracy&#8221;. What I find most prolific from their engagement is that both sides have a point. Liberalism/secularism has a good deal of ills. But so does Christianity (even when theopolitically minded). Their take-away advice seems to be that democratic/ecumenical conversation should at least be more charitable and receptive &#8211; from all parties involved. The advantage of both ecclesial and democratic socities is that thoughts, opinions, perspectives, etc. can be exchanged and can be argued for persuasively in front of a non-violent listening audience. I think that whenever &#8220;idolatry&#8221; is invoked it makes boggy-men out of people/groups and the dialectic process is blocked from taking place.</p>
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		<title>By: Davey Henreckson</title>
		<link>http://www.theopolitical.com/?p=1225&#038;cpage=1#comment-1962</link>
		<dc:creator>Davey Henreckson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:16:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Josh: Same here. On a related note, while I have nothing against mass displays of civic loyalty, I wonder whether it&#039;s very healthy for Christians to celebrate Memorial Day but not days in memory of saints and martyrs.

Pensans: I&#039;m not arguing for or against government expansion. But idolatry is a serious charge, and if it&#039;s being wagged about at the wrong things, we&#039;re doing ourselves a disservice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh: Same here. On a related note, while I have nothing against mass displays of civic loyalty, I wonder whether it&#8217;s very healthy for Christians to celebrate Memorial Day but not days in memory of saints and martyrs.</p>
<p>Pensans: I&#8217;m not arguing for or against government expansion. But idolatry is a serious charge, and if it&#8217;s being wagged about at the wrong things, we&#8217;re doing ourselves a disservice.</p>
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